OVERVIEW:
What does it mean to be a man? For many of us gay boys, masculinity wasn’t a choice—it was something we were punished for lacking. From childhood bullying to family silence, we grew up navigating a world that demanded we toughen up. But what if masculinity isn’t all bad? What if we can reclaim the good parts without the toxic baggage. This week, I’m joined by sexual health advocate and content creator Nolberto Gonzalez, who’s spent his career helping gay men cultivate pleasure, confidence, and consent. We reflect on our queer boyhoods, the pressures of masculinity, and how we can redefine it for ourselves. Plus, Nolberto spills on his first gangbang as a bottom—because, of course, we do.
TRANSCRIPT:
Trevor Hoppe (00:09)
Hey, welcome to the Best Gay Sex Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Trevor Hoppe. Today’s episode is about masculinity, a topic close to my heart, not in the way you might think. Like many effeminate gay men, I grew up a little, how do you say, limp-wristed, a little light in the loafers. I had this big goofy gran as a child and a penchant for playing with my neighbor’s Barbies, admittedly.
rather than my own Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, although I did like the turtles, not gonna lie. But when puberty hit my classmates, my happy life descended into a nightmare of bullying and beatings. My classmates called me the F-sler long before I even knew what that word meant or that I had something called a sexuality. I sometimes say that I came out at age 14, but that’s…
a little bit of a lie, like lots of effeminate boys, I didn’t really have the luxury of staying closeted or coming out. It was written on my face. Today’s guests may have grown up thousands of miles away in Puebla, Mexico, in a totally different cultural context. But we share a common experience of growing up as a little queer boy. Noberto Gonzalez.
is a sexual health advocate, activist, turned content creator who has made promoting healthy sexuality his mission in life. For over a decade, he has led erotic hands-on workshops tailored and designed to gay men called Sessiones Explicitas.
And in today’s episode, we pause to reflect not just on those toxic elements of masculinity that made our childhoods so traumatic, but we also brainstorm how can we salvage and recuperate those positive aspects of masculinity, and they do exist, on our journey towards healing. Let’s listen in.
Trevor Hoppe (02:22)
Nolberto Gonzalez, welcome to the Best Gay Sex Podcast.
Nolberto (02:26)
Thank you for inviting me. I feel like very honored because I always like to talk with you. Our conversations are always fun, are always interesting, are always deep. And they have always this personal ingredient that is not just about theory, even if we talk about theory. And that’s what I think. It’s fabulous about you. One of the…
Trevor Hoppe (02:33)
It is a pleasure.
Nolberto (02:54)
hundreds of fabulous things to you all. So thank you.
Trevor Hoppe (02:59)
Absolutely. We met long ago
back in 2007 at a conference in Pueblo where you are from. So can you tell viewers and listeners a little bit about kind of situate them where you’re from, how, where you grew up and, where you became like a little sexual being.
Nolberto (03:03)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, well, I was born in Puebla, which is a very, not a very, very, very small town now. It kind of became big. Two hours far from Mexican city. It’s a very conservative place. It’s a very Catholic place. And I started to get involved in sexuality issues more like in the equivalent of high school.
you and when I started my university studies. First I was interested in sexual health in general and then my path went to HIV prevention and sexual and reproductive rights and then I started to do some work with my own body and my own image about trying to work some kind of some issues around about self-esteem in my image.
how I was perceiving myself and then I started to make some pictures of me every time with less and less clothes and then I started to make adult content and I was like balancing, know, like exploring both sides in parallel. Around these years, that’s when I met you, it was starting to get…
into conferences and seminars and all this academic stuff and in the meanwhile I was like exploring my sexual life first in terms of my body not just in terms of how it’s of how I saw my body or how I perceived my body but also in terms of perceptions of feelings you know like
physical pleasure and this elaborated pleasure. It’s a path that I have continued from all until today, of course.
Trevor Hoppe (04:59)
You, talked about growing up in Puebla and being a very Catholic conservative place. Tell me a little bit about what it was, let’s be like a little queer boy in a context like that.
Nolberto (04:59)
Wow.
Mm-hmm.
It’s very very very hard. It’s like like tons of people will be will feel related it’s a kind of a it’s kind of strange how lots of us have been like together in this feeling of isolation you know
Like being queer in a small place, in a place that is very conservative, in a place that doesn’t have a space for you. I remember, for example, every Christmas, I hated Christmas. And I remember Christmas as this period of time when I was punished for being myself in terms of…
you know, the big family gets reunited and here we don’t buy stuff for everyone because the families are huge in here. So we, we, what’s the word? We write down the names of everyone in little papers and then we give it. Okay. That’s, that’s it. So I remember that every year when someone got my name out of it,
Trevor Hoppe (06:09)
We call it a white elephant. Yeah. Yeah.
Nolberto (06:19)
They have a few weeks of course to buy a present for I remember that I was All the presents that I received were very very disappointed. Sometimes they were kind of cruel. I remember that I was like 10, 11 years old. And I received like a bucket of this kind of giant Lego that are for childs.
that I like in kindergarten because I was like, okay, these people doesn’t know me. And I remember when I was like 13 years, because I have always been like very, I have always you can always tell that I’m not heterosexual, course, you know? And that happens since I was a little child.
So I remember when I was like 30 years old, an uncle of mine gave me an image of Jesus Christ in a cross, like one meter tall. And I was like, okay, this is a statement, you know? And I was like, okay. And everyone else got phrases that they kind of liked because they have always…
Trevor Hoppe (07:19)
Wow.
Nolberto (07:28)
talked about what they wanted, they always talked about their desires, and they always talked about what they did, how they played, you know, as child, we give this information to the adults around us. But in some way, I always have this special treatment, and I was like, okay, I know these people just know me and just know how to treat me, how to face…
the reality that I’m putting on their faces. When I came out of the closet with my mom and my dad, I was like around 14. And it was a very, very interesting mental process that I went to because I’ve always been this anxious person. You know me. I have always been this…
Trevor Hoppe (08:07)
Wow.
Nolberto (08:21)
person with anxiety problems. So I was kind of into a girl during the school time when I was 40 years old. We were really into each other and my mom and my dad were very very excited about she and I being a couple or something.
Even if I was like kind of excited about this, I knew that eventually I would have relationship with voice. And in my head, there was a huge, huge horrible story about me giving the wrong message to my dad and mom that I was straight and then I had to keep on this lie during whole my life, you know?
And then I picture myself getting married for social pressure. And then I picture myself cheating on my wife and living with her with my kids to go out with some random guy in my 40s. You know, I was like a Mexican Telenorada. And then I, and the way I ended this Telenorada was coming out with them. I was like, all right, you know I’m into this girl.
Trevor Hoppe (09:17)
Yeah.
Nolberto (09:28)
I I have no issues with that. I hope you don’t have these issues with that, of course. But you have to know, you consider this warning if you want to, that eventually I will have, maybe I will have this with voice too. Sorry.
Trevor Hoppe (09:42)
what
a fascinating way to come out. You basically came out as like gay but with a girlfriend.
Nolberto (09:48)
Exactly.
And I’ve always had this openness. During some time of my life, I introduced myself as bisexual. Now I identify myself more as queer person. But politically, of course, surrounded by all these HIV calls, of course I’m politically…
Identified as a gay man because I have a lot of a lot of issues that crosses cross matter reality that it makes me configure myself as that but coming back to the Mexican telenovela of course, I that’s the way how I stopped it and That’s the way That that’s the way how I stopped how I stopped the telenovela
Trevor Hoppe (10:23)
That’s how it started? That’s how what?
Nolberto (10:29)
And that’s how I started to face my sexuality in terms of, so I think this is how, I think this is what life is about. Like facing the things as they are, maybe not trying to push things into categories or expectations or desires. And if I’m true to myself,
in this part, maybe the other will have the chance know if they accept me and to know if they there will be no false expectations.
Trevor Hoppe (11:08)
So
how did your parents react when you told them?
Nolberto (11:12)
was another telenovela. It was more like a serious and loud, and that was the second season. Of course, they sent me to the psychologist, of course. I went to the psychologist. She was a wonderful therapist. She was working in the clinic that we went to, you know, for the insurance we have for the government, you know, it’s a free clinic and they have a…
Trevor Hoppe (11:14)
Ha ha ha ha.
Nolberto (11:34)
access to she was very supportive and she was very wise and she helped me a lot to understand that there was nothing wrong with me. She said, and I have this tattooed in my said, I could help you to figure out if you’re into boys, into girls, into both. You have already figured it out. I can help you to figure it out.
Trevor Hoppe (11:46)
Good.
Nolberto (12:00)
figure out. If you are boys and girls and you feel some conflict inside of you, I can help you with that conflict but seems like you have this If you want you to talk to your parents about think I could help you to make a decision, to make what could be good, what could go
and you can make a decision. You already made that decision. I could help you to not feel guilty about who you are, not to feel less worthy for being who you are, but you have already done it. So it seems like now it’s your parents’ problem, and I’m very glad to help them if they want to come here. So I was like, I didn’t expect to get this reaffirmation of…
Trevor Hoppe (12:43)
Wow.
Nolberto (12:48)
Everyone out of my own head, you know, it was very life-changing absolutely that’s that changed my life and from this my I told that to my parents and The answer was so we’re gonna look for another psychologist and I was like Okay. Yes, they were like very committed to that cause They went to the psychologist they want to help but they
Trevor Hoppe (13:05)
no.
Yeah.
Nolberto (13:14)
they didn’t tell me. And you know the anxiety thing. Well, I decided, I think there should be a word in English. I decided unilateralmente, you know, like, just, I decided for everyone, I decided for everyone that I would never talk about it again until they come up with the issue.
And they telling me of course That they wouldn’t talk about the I would bring it to the conversation there was a six-year silence in my was a strange in my house during six years We didn’t talk about Anything more than the daily that’s when I started
high school and university. Of course it changed my dynamic with my family, of course. We were like strangers to each other. six years later, you know in Mexico we have this altars to the deaf people on November, Dia de Muertos. I started to work an association and we made an altar de Muertos, we made an ofrenda.
for LGBTQ people who committed suicide. We put it in a house of culture, it was a building in Puebla that works culture issues. It was kind of a demonstration. You get your group, they sign up and they show your
My mom went to that exhibition because it was a permanent exhibition and it was like a coincidence. I was there and she went into with my sister. And then that’s when she realized that I was doing all this stuff and that issue didn’t stop for me. did stop this conversation at home, of course, I didn’t…
Trevor Hoppe (14:59)
in those six years, yeah.
Nolberto (15:05)
I couldn’t stop working on it personally for a second. No one talked about it during the event, during the demonstration, you know? later at night, when I arrived home, my mom was washing I told him, well, thank you. So for what? Thank you for not making a serious scandal because that’s what you normally do.
you know, thank you for behaving, for being an adult. And she was you know, I haven’t talked to you about it and maybe this has been a mistake, but I want you to know that I’m open to talk about this every time you want to, that I been waiting for a chance.
from you to tell you that I’m more than okay with that, that I love you a lot, but I didn’t want to bring up to the conversation because I thought it would be invasive. And I was like.
You know, it was a very, it was a very strange feeling between reaffirmation, like, okay, I really wanted this. I can’t blame you for making this decision because in some way I made the same decision as you. In my mind, I was protecting you from the reality and in your mind, were protecting me from reality.
Trevor Hoppe (16:03)
Yeah.
Nolberto (16:26)
I can’t blame anyone but the culture. I just blame the culture. we kind of lost six years. After that six years, I had a full conversation with my parents. They told me they went to the psychologist and they loved her, but not as obsessed as I was with her. But then it happens that
they found a friend of them in the You know, there’s always this friend who has maybe not studies in some issues, but you give him, you give to that friend the ability, the title of that wise person, you know? There’s always someone who maybe didn’t study a lot, but there’s someone that you can fight, you know?
Trevor Hoppe (17:10)
Yeah.
Nolberto (17:17)
So they found this friend he has a very way He had a very strange advice for them but it worked in them and I’m thankful for they told me, we found this friend, we talked about this, we had just came out of the office with the psychologist like feeling kind of, you know, like confused and…
we saw this friend and he saw that we were like intrigued or worried and concerned basically what he told us was okay but would you love yourself right? He asked me
Yeah, but maybe people will treat him bad. Uh-huh. So, you love him, right? So you want him not to feel rejected on the outside. So you want to make for him a nice space at your home, right? And it was very effective for them. I think it maybe was a kind of a…
Maybe he speaks on their language. And I was trying to speak in another language, you know. Maybe it’s a thing between generations. Maybe it’s something that has to do a little bit more with maybe not trying to explain a lot of things, you know. And maybe that’s why it works on or on their generation.
Trevor Hoppe (18:18)
Yeah.
Nolberto (18:36)
I’m telling you to do this because I’m your mom and that’s enough reasons, you know? Maybe. Yes, exactly. And I’m very thankful for that. It took six years to get to this conversation, but I do feel bad about it. I feel that now my relationship with my father and my mother is great. I love my father. I love my mother with all my heart.
Trevor Hoppe (18:41)
Right? End of story.
Nolberto (19:00)
And they have known my boyfriends. They have known my spaces. Once I moved to Mexico City, they have came and visited. We have a very, very good relationship now. I’m still very far from my bigger family because I don’t think I…
Trevor Hoppe (19:18)
the uncle who gave you the cross
Nolberto (19:20)
Yes, I don’t know.
Trevor Hoppe (19:20)
you may be not so close with.
Nolberto (19:22)
Eventually some cousins come to me telling me that they had the courage to come out because I was the first one in the family. it also helped a lot that I was always this kind of nerdy, intelligent guy, you know, like a…
Trevor Hoppe (19:34)
That’s so great though
Nolberto (19:43)
this library mouse, have this expression in Spanish. And I was always that person. So I got good notes, was like, in my family I was known for the one that is going to be very, very intelligent, very successful and, know, smart and everything. So that was like…
the good quality that my family recognized about me and that in some way still put me on the map and I was very very happy that some of my cousins has reached me years before to tell me that okay I did it and thanks to you for doing something for not keep quiet
Remain silent.
Trevor Hoppe (20:30)
that’s really great that you were able to be that kind of trailblazer. certainly experienced the same similar thing in my family and my community where I was definitely ahead of the curve coming out at 14 also. So we share that experience. And I also, my parents took me to the psychologist also, and then the psychologist ended up being really supportive about the whole gay thing. It did not go the way that I expected it to or
probably the way my parents expected it to be honest. I’m grateful for that in retrospect. So.
Nolberto (21:04)
It’s
very interesting how we… Sorry, it’s just something that has just crossed my mind. There’s a lot of things that we need to change because it’s very unfair to put this pressure on 14 years old individuals. It’s very, very, very strange. And some things just have never changed. well, that was just the idea.
Trevor Hoppe (21:19)
yeah, I mean…
you’re growing up in Puebla, you’ve come out to your parents, but there’s the six years of silence. I presume probably your first sexual experiences probably took place sometime in those six years. Is that a fair assessment? What was that like?
Nolberto (21:45)
Yes, ah, that was very, very interesting, dad’s story.
I was in high school, I was 16 years old and I don’t know the age of the other guy but I’m very very sure he knew that I was underaged of course because they were in 2002-2003 to have internet in your house was a luxury you know
Trevor Hoppe (22:02)
Hmm.
Nolberto (22:17)
We had the cyber cafes. And you go around to computer per hour. And my God, feel like my teachers talking to me about the 60s. And then, and by that time, and at that moment in history.
Trevor Hoppe (22:28)
Right? It feels like a way, way back again. Yeah.
Nolberto (22:36)
We didn’t have apps in our cell phones. There was chat rooms. There was gay.com. And there was Latin America category. And there was gay men in black color. I remember that I was just… I went there. There was a cyber cafe out of my… just crossing the street.
Trevor Hoppe (22:45)
Yes.
Nolberto (23:00)
from my school. A preparatoria. Everyone is underage in preparatoria. So you do the math. So the guy who was in charge of the place, some time, know, some day I was like chatting with a random person because you have no information but the nickname. And yes, of course. Yeah. I think telenovela runs through my veins because I’m Mexican.
maybe and then in the momentary and then i receive a message and you insert the music of your favorite and then i’m the guy next to you with a i don’t know with a red shirt and i was like
Trevor Hoppe (23:25)
my gosh, that’s…
Nolberto (23:37)
You know.
Trevor Hoppe (23:40)
Whoa.
Nolberto (23:40)
I was very very
happy because I really like that guy. I found him very attractive. He had this nerdy look. He had a beard. He had a wonderful belly. He was cute. He was really really really cute. And I don’t remember how.
Trevor Hoppe (23:45)
Yeah?
Nolberto (24:02)
but sometimes I had to go to school on Saturdays for some signatures. Actually, I don’t remember clearly, but sometimes we had to go to school on Saturdays. And most of the things around the school were closed, and you have a lack of structure on these Saturdays. So I decided that I was…
trying to kill some time at the cafe and it was closed and I was getting out of the building where it was and I ran into that guy. I like I’m just gonna check some things in there so I will not be open today I’m sorry but if you want to join me to get these things you know upstairs just you and I was like alright that’s it yeah
Of course it was unprotected. Yes, it was unprotected. Of course I was yes. And I’m talking about 2002. It was way before prep. It was way before my first HIV test. It was way before a lot of things that I know now. And it was way before a lot of things that I consider. There are like a…
like the non-negotiable things that I have put myself in my sexual life. But there are things that I have solved later. In that time, I wanted to have this reaffirmation experience, you know, because I knew I didn’t feel pressured about there’s some experience that you’re losing that you have to, that you need to have now. I was like…
I wanted to prove myself that I was attractive to someone. I wanted to prove myself that someone would like to have this interaction with me. I didn’t want a boyfriend. a relationship. I didn’t want a happily ever after story. I wanted to feel desired. And that’s what I got. It was a sloppy yes.
It was it was not really really good He had one is the most gorgeous sticks I have ever seen in my life. I remember clearly
and it felt great. But yeah, it was the idea. But I have no regrets.
Trevor Hoppe (26:27)
What more can you ask for, for a first time?
Nolberto (26:28)
Yes, exactly.
I would have liked to have a little more preparation for that. You know, I have always been this very open person about things. So I wish I was the kind of person who would always carry condoms, for example. But I didn’t come up with the idea until that day.
So I was like, all right, I would have changed that to feel safer, to feel more secure, and to enjoy a little bit more of the experience, yes, because I was worried some days before, of course, I was very, very in terms of the experience and expectations, was absolutely satisfied, five stars.
Trevor Hoppe (27:14)
I love that. I love to hear that. that’s an amazing first time experience. I’m glad it was positive and fulfilling. Do you remember some of those early sexual experiences maybe that didn’t go so well that kind of you learn some lessons the hard way?
Nolberto (27:30)
yes, of course. And I had time to think about it. I had time, but there’s always so many things. The one that I have talked about the most, this year, some friends and I were talking about how the traditionally attractive people, know,
Trevor Hoppe (27:34)
Yeah.
Nolberto (27:50)
Egemonico? What’s the word in English for Egemonico? Egemonic? No. Egemonic, yeah. We have like this kind of… I don’t know. I won’t call it an idea because it’s more than an idea, but I won’t say it’s evidence. But well, you will get it as long as I start there. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah.
Trevor Hoppe (27:55)
Hegemonic,
mainstream beauty norms is that is that
Nolberto (28:14)
Most of the time, the people that have the most of these attractive traditional features, most of the time, it looks like they seem to only need that and not to put some effort, not to put creativity. I’m just putting in here my attractive, my wonderful nose, my huge spectacles, you know, my muscles.
Trevor Hoppe (28:29)
Alright.
Nolberto (28:37)
And because I’m the ugly one, I’m putting all the effort, you know? So, we have this saying that handsome people have horrible thugs, basically. I remember in kind of these days, I was in Manhattan chatting in that siberica. Well, I had to go to another siberica.
So I was chatting with a guy that lived like two blocks from me, from where I was living. And it was this beautiful, traditionally beautiful, handsome man, very white skinned, you know, Mexico is a very racist country. Don’t let them try to convince you of the contrary. Very white skin, green eyes, a wonderful nose, very nice body, everything.
He sent me a message, hey how are you? Let’s meet. And I was like, I would gladly do, but I have to present a test in my school, so I don’t have time now. Can we do tomorrow? And his answer was shocking. I wish I could translate it fully. He was like, no, no, no, it’s not that I’m like you. I don’t like you, I’m just horny.
And I was like, how very down are you? know? And, course, yes, of course, I felt offended. Yes, of course, but I decided that that was going to be the only interaction. A few weeks later, he writes to me again, and I was like, oh, that was the guy who was rude with me.
Trevor Hoppe (29:48)
you
Fuck off!
As you should.
Nolberto (30:16)
And he invited me again. And I went.
Trevor Hoppe (30:20)
yeah, you capes.
Nolberto (30:21)
Because I always learned the
hard way. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I always learned the hard way. Yes, I don’t learn. I love to. I love the performance of learning even though I don’t learn. But if I enjoy the process, what’s the problem? So I decided to go with him. I entered to his bedroom with my backpack. I turn around to put my backpack.
Trevor Hoppe (30:26)
up in there.
Yeah.
Nolberto (30:48)
on the floor and started to get undressed. And he is on the bed with his niece in here, know, like showing his book, like, now do it. And like sniffing his, opening his bottle of poppers, you know. And I was like, okay, your mother ready, baby. I was trying to…
Trevor Hoppe (30:57)
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
Nolberto (31:09)
I don’t know, it wasn’t even my heart inside him. And he came. And I was like, oh. And I was like, what a waste of time.
Trevor Hoppe (31:16)
Uh-huh.
we have this song that’s from the 50s or 60s, I think here in the United States. It’s like, if you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife. And I feel like it’s kind of the same, same idea here, which is like hot guys are very pretty to look at, but sometimes they can be really fun, obviously, but they’re not always in it.
Nolberto (31:35)
Me- yeah!
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Trevor Hoppe (31:45)
You know, they don’t have to bring as much to the table in terms of skills and talent sometimes. on that body. Stop relying on that body is what, you know, the RuPaul expression. Yeah. So I feel that.
Nolberto (31:49)
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Exactly Yes, yes sometimes
Yeah, and I think it’s it’s very important to think that I always try to to to bring to myself What I think about other people? Even if I even if I Even if I’m telling you this story about this guy who was very very rude relying in some qualities of his body
I always try to think, have I some time behaved similarly? Do I have some behavior sometimes that may look like the same? And I think that it’s very important to think that maybe not about physical features, but I do rely on some qualities that I have. And I know…
that sometimes I have been abusive in that terms, of course. Yeah, I think I have if you want to change something, you have to acknowledge it first. So I was like, yes, exactly. And I’ve always tried to make this intellectual effort, but okay, there are some moments, there have been some experiences when I have tried to…
Trevor Hoppe (33:00)
You gotta start with yourself.
Nolberto (33:14)
take advantage of something or being unfair with some other people because I have pictures of the other think something important to think about. Exactly.
Trevor Hoppe (33:24)
We’re all human, right? We’re all human and we’re
on those apps and we’re horny. And sometimes we treat people with the same kind of disrespect that we get. And it’s really, you don’t even realize sometimes you’re doing it. There can be these power games where people play in terms of, you know, leaving you on read, like they’ll read your message, but they won’t reply. And you’ll be like, and then I’ll find myself sometimes doing exactly the same thing.
Nolberto (33:30)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Aha.
Mm-hmm.
Trevor Hoppe (33:52)
For many different reasons. Sometimes you’re not being rude. Sometimes you just don’t know, you know, if now is the right time. you know, you have to reflect back on yourself and think, am I also doing and contributing to this pattern and how do I change it? And one of the previous guests, Shane Lucas, that I interviewed talked about looking for people that are curious, that want to know things about you and that you want to know things about.
Nolberto (33:58)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Trevor Hoppe (34:21)
And I really try to keep that. It’s, hard sometimes cause people don’t like to talk a lot on those apps, but, but if you kind of select for people who seem genuinely curious about you and what turns you on and that you’re also curious about them and what turns them on, I think that can be helpful to weed out those guys like you’re talking about who are not curious at all. and, and not good fucks as you said.
Nolberto (34:27)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Exactly.
Yes, exactly. And it’s a lack of reflection, it’s a lack of curiosity. It’s like taking for granted that this thing will directly bring you to another one. And that this is all figured out because there is this other thing in the equation. And it’s just unreal. But some people take it for granted.
Trevor Hoppe (35:13)
Yeah.
Nolberto (35:16)
I can’t blame no one but the culture again, but well it happens
Trevor Hoppe (35:22)
Yeah, I had an experience ago,
sort of similar to what you described where this guy messaged me and couldn’t meet up right then. And I said, I said no. his response is like, wasn’t really into you actually. I just thought you would be easy. I was like, great. Well, thank you for clarifying that. What the fuck? Like.
Nolberto (35:41)
Okay.
That’s a very
rude thing to say.
Trevor Hoppe (35:47)
It’s awful. I think, yeah, and that can really…
Nolberto (35:50)
It’s awful. I remember my next boyfriend.
My next boyfriend told me the very same thing. You have people behind you. You have all these kind of people who invite you to dinner or something. But not because you’re handsome, because you’re easy. And I was like, okay.
Trevor Hoppe (35:56)
Ugh, I’m sorry.
just the audacity to say that and it’s a lot. It’s a lot. So you had to kiss some frogs to get to the good stuff. is today, what do you think the best sex looks like for you today?
Nolberto (36:11)
Exactly. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Yes.
the best sex looks like…
like two or more present their consent and their craziness in a playground. To me, good sex is a playground. To me, good sex is about taking pauses, you know, like, let’s pause it for a moment, and restart again. Good sex is about… Let me catch some air.
sex is about…so good, should I go upper? should I go lower? sex is about a good laugh in between good sex is about the chance to not being worried about how you are being you know
Trevor Hoppe (37:02)
Mmm.
It’s real.
Nolberto (37:13)
For me good
sex is It’s like I used to think of good sex like my own version of my own porn movie, you Considering there’s a fiction of course, you know? like the main videos that we I used to think of my sexuality as like my best sex, my version of…
best sex would be a porn clip directed for me, by me, you know? But I have started to make it a little more complex because it’s not about how it looks, it’s about how it feels and it’s about how the environment. So it’s the clip and they’re behind the scenes and the process of being right in it during the time you’re filming it, you know? It’s everything happening at the same time.
Trevor Hoppe (37:43)
That’s a nice way to think about it.
That’s right.
Nolberto (38:07)
I think it’s possible when you have the chance to be yourself and to ask for the things you want in the moment and you are open enough to let the other person be. And that’s great. I remember I had one of the best experiences some months ago with someone that I was…
He was attending one of my courses years ago and then we found each other again on Instagram and he was like, were the teacher in that, and I was like, yes. He was like, I wish I could have the chance to take you to dinner after this and everything. And I was like, well, you have the chance now. So we met, we talked a little on Instagram. We talked about…
Trevor Hoppe (38:48)
Yeah
Nolberto (38:53)
fantasies, we talked about things that we wanted to do, things that we’d like to. We defined like the base, the basics, sorry. And we had one of the best sexual encounters of my entire life. I was like, my God. mean, he was an athlete, but not exactly, not just in physical terms, you know?
because you see when a muscle is trained but in the conversation you can realize too you can tell when communication skills are trained too you can see when when when honesty is trained too you can see when
You can tell a lot of things when you talk to someone. So it was very, very apparent. We were like having fun. It was about having fun. And it was great. I mean, yeah.
Trevor Hoppe (39:49)
That’s awesome. I’m going to record this question so I can edit it back into that. So I can energize.
Nolberto (39:50)
Yeah. huh. Okay. huh. Okay.
Okay.
Trevor Hoppe (39:57)
But you’re sorry, hands will be problematic with, yep.
Nolberto (40:00)
sorry, Thank you.
Let me do these things before.
Trevor Hoppe (40:03)
So can you two…
Nolberto (40:08)
Is it my hair is in this phase when it’s growing but it’s not short but it’s not long exactly and it falls off? Yeah, it’s better. Thank you.
Trevor Hoppe (40:20)
So can you tell me about one of the best experiences that you’ve had? I’m just gonna edit that in too so that you can then tell that story that you just told. For the clips, it’s good to have a back and forth. So like I said, when you just stick to one story, like don’t, I remember a time when I just stick to the one. will be easier, I promise, in the long run.
Nolberto (40:24)
Hmm
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
Yes. Thank you. I just let carry the way.
Trevor Hoppe (40:47)
Sorry to interrupt again.
I know, I love that. And it’s usually amazing just for the Instagram stuff, it has to be so tight. know? me figure, know where I was gonna go from there.
Nolberto (40:57)
I know. Yeah.
Trevor Hoppe (41:01)
So are you a lights on or lights off kind of guy?
Nolberto (41:04)
My lights on… that’s a good question. My lights on… It’s not about physical features, but there has to be something physical that attracts me, of course. Even if it’s… beard, chest, legs, whatever. There has to be something physical, yeah. There doesn’t have to be the whole package of physical features that I will…
like or if I detracted. I need a good laugh. Of course I need a good laugh. I need a good sense of humor. need a curious person. I need someone who encourages you to talk. I need someone, what turns me on is someone that when you say something that…
can be kind of censorship reason, that person asks you, and what else? You know, with very interest. I love interest in passionate people. I love people who, what turns me on is people that you say something about some situation, some fantasy, some…
that you want to do and and they took it and it and if you are this have you ever tried to imagine if you are this or if you put this other element I was like okay so someone who interacts with your desire that always turns out it also turns me on of course when someone has this
this ability to pause things, you know? Okay, let’s bring some water. Are you okay? Are you feeling It doesn’t break my fantasy. Aha, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn’t finish my fantasy, of course. It makes me feel like, okay, we’re taking care of each other, too. That’s something that should be on. What turns me off, it’s way easier.
Trevor Hoppe (42:40)
ability to take a break. Yeah. Yeah.
Nolberto (42:58)
The people who just lay down and wait for you.
Trevor Hoppe (43:00)
Well,
let me ask you that. know, sorry to keep interrupting. Now that I’ve edited so many of these, I just know what’s gonna work best. And if I ask you that question, will be, I can use it more.
Nolberto (43:06)
Tell me about it.
Trevor Hoppe (43:14)
So we got a good idea of kind of what turns you on, what turns you off.
Nolberto (43:18)
Oh, it turns me off. It’s a little easier. The people who just lay down and make you do all the effort. The people who just throw some crumbles of information and you have to figure out all that will happen.
Trevor Hoppe (43:24)
Yeah.
Nolberto (43:36)
It’s not that I need three or four hours encounter. I’m a big fan of quickies. we have to settle. We have to decide it together. know? I turn up entitled people.
Trevor Hoppe (43:44)
Really?
Nolberto (43:51)
I hate when people are just like, okay, but you see this beauty here in front of you, so you want to worship me, right? It’s like, have, yes, it’s like, I have not decided that and you will not decide for me unless it’s my fantasy in that, in which case I am still deciding, you know? That’s kind of what turns me on. People with bad moods in terms of, you know, in…
Trevor Hoppe (43:57)
Yeah, this, yeah.
Right.
Nolberto (44:19)
People who are rude, like people who are, I’m tired of. That’s why, it’s very easy to turn me off. And it’s very easy that if some people has already turned me on, it’s very easy to turn me off. I have learned to, I have learned to not continue with interactions that I don’t want to. And I have.
been and I have learned that I can stop being afraid of finishing an encounter if something doesn’t, if I don’t like something and I’m very, very, very in peace with that.
Trevor Hoppe (44:57)
Yeah, amen to that. How did you learn to say effectively? Because I think that’s what’s so hard for some people is not just, don’t want to have sex with you, but maybe I’m going to leave this situation because I don’t feel good it.
Nolberto (45:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well first I have to remind myself that this is not the encounter or this is not the last chance that I will have to have an encounter. I remember I have to remind myself that there is a lot of people that are into me that finds me attractive.
that want to have a good moment with me sexually and that makes me think with more confidence like, alright, this time it’s not happening, next time without a person, it will happen because there will be some other people, there are some other people that will be more compatible with the things that I want and the things that I want to
Trevor Hoppe (45:49)
Peace out.
Nolberto (46:02)
to bring to the and I will be more compatible with some other if it didn’t work, thank you for your time, my best wishes And that’s it. Yes, yes, exactly, yes. Yes, I’m not… Yes, yes.
Trevor Hoppe (46:13)
for now. I understand that, And
what you think, you described kind of the characteristics of what you think the best sex looks like for you. Can you, looking back, is there an encounter where you’re like, you know what, this is pretty much close to the best?
Nolberto (46:25)
Mm-hmm.
Close to the best. Close to the best. This guy that was my student in the course that I teach, like some years ago. There’s been some, I think that since 2015, maybe 10 years ago, I started to develop this workshop.
Trevor Hoppe (46:43)
Mmm.
Nolberto (46:58)
that is called Sessiones Explicitas. That is a sexual health workshop for gay We work at Naked. So from that course, I have developed some small workshops, Sara, short versions with very specific objectives. So there was some guy who took the course with me years ago.
Trevor Hoppe (47:00)
huh.
Nolberto (47:21)
And like some months ago, found me on Instagram and was really wanted to have some interaction with you after that cause. But I found it problematic. I knew that it wasn’t going to be the most ethical thing. well, now that I have found you and some years have been, I wanna talk about it. And I was like, I think this is a great time to talk about it.
And we talked a little about fantasies, we talked a little about situations, we made our schedules to work on together and we had a very, very good time.
We had this basis very, very clear about what we wanted to do. And it wasn’t like we had any script of what to do and what to say, but we had a general idea. And from that, we started to just to have fun and just to let each one carry their weight. was very, very, it was a very, it was about reaffirmation of course, like.
there was always this communication verbally about this is what I wanted to do, like yes, it go, and I finally have the chance of having, know, with all this desire and the tone of the voice, you know? And there’s also a lot of things,
Involving the whole body, you know not focusing in some parts of the body. It was like a whole experience and it was Like let’s make a pause. I need some water so we can keep on continue like this it was it’s very interesting how you can be like kind you’re like craving for someone but at the same time that you feel like you have
Praising for someone you also know that you still have time to make little pulses so you can still enjoy the situation So it was very very hard and intense sometimes, you know, and it was very very calm sometimes and I think it was about balance It was about Talking about what we wanted in the moment and and to continue
to the other one if we wanted upper the level making it low. It was like, it was great. It was like close to the best. I wouldn’t know which one to call my best but that was definitely one of the most recent and the most pleasurable ever.
Trevor Hoppe (49:54)
Great. You mentioned these workshops. Tell me a little bit about what you would do in these workshops, because I’m sure people are curious.
Nolberto (50:00)
Yes, of course. Yeah, we’re glad to do. Well, so Cedric’s Explicit Desks, Explicit Sessions, is a workshop that I developed with some inspirations in some Tantra workshops that I went into sometimes. You know, Tantra is more spiritual, and I make my workshops a little more practical, because I…
I don’t have a spiritual training in anything, but I do have this experience and this knowledge in practical things about sexual hell. I forget the other words, sorry. But it’s something like it’s about your own body and how you think of your own body, not in a spiritual…
terms, in just physical terms, know, very, very practical. And I came up with the idea of first, we need to learn about sexuality more relaxed environments and we have to give ourselves a chance to learn in terms of pleasure, not in terms of guilt.
Trevor Hoppe (51:06)
Yeah.
Nolberto (51:08)
or in terms of what could go wrong. And if we think of terms of what could go wrong, we have to think about what can we bring to the table that has been wrong during our lives. So there is like two big, I always say that this workshop has two strong legs. The first one is this, about experience, of course, and you have the chance to.
We talk about consent in every exercise. We always talk about consent in every exercise because I always have an assistant with me. Like a magician, there’s always one person with which I show the exercise first with that person. Okay, the next exercise is about this, this, and this. And I do all the exercise with the person that I have for demonstration.
Trevor Hoppe (51:46)
Yeah
Nolberto (51:59)
And then I asked to the team, to the people, is there any one of you that doesn’t want to do this exercise? And if someone raised their hands, it doesn’t matter, it’s great. You helped me to work on with the materials, with the message, oil, and all these things. I mean, you can learn maybe by not participating.
But if you participate, I want you to feel safe and I want you to feel comfortable when you participate. that’s the first thing. We talk about sexual health in a very consent, with a very specific perspective of consent. Because the other lack of the workshop is that even if we even if the people that signs up to the workshop, maybe some of them are gay men.
some of them are non-binary people that have sex with gay men. The thing is, there’s a lot of violence in our interactions. We still have the idea, the wrong idea, that harder is better, that deeper is better, that stronger is better. And not all the times, not with all the people.
And there’s some awful experience that people have terms of, couldn’t stop this. some people get hurt physically and some people get hurt emotionally. So other thing that we work on in the workshop. It’s a six hour workshop because it’s always step by step, little by little we go.
from very basic things to some other exercise every time with less clothes, every time with a little more ideas to complex and always after an exercise we always try to discuss the center issue. The exercise works as a…
as a provocation to speak, you know? It’s like, let’s use the exercise as an excuse to talk about some other ideas. it’s not just about getting naked with other guys, which I always tell people, this is not exactly an orgy. If you want to, I can manage drone. I’m very, very good at managing orgy.
Trevor Hoppe (54:03)
Yeah.
Nolberto (54:17)
a very good orgy organizer orgy planner, I will say. But well, what I always tell them is that it’s not like a… It’s more like a series of exercises and discussions that are from very basic things to more complex things about what is defined in us in our sexuality.
Trevor Hoppe (54:17)
No.
Nolberto (54:39)
being rude and violent with other men, being entitled to do things that the other people maybe don’t want to do. Because the most of the time when gaming talk about of their sexual encounters, they will use metaphors with violence. The most of them, wouldn’t know how to translate it in English, but was like
I really destroyed her whole, you know, was like… Destroying is really good thing in all this, the context. Is it really what the other person wanted? But if it… Because if it is, it’s great. But wasn’t what the other people was asking for. So, it’s kind of… It’s the first time I tried to talk about my workshop in English. It’s been quite a challenge. Thank you for that.
Trevor Hoppe (55:29)
I think you are onto something with this tendency to, I guess it’s just toxic masculinity that seeps into our heads and we end up using this kind of macho language around, I fucked him in half, you know, I just destroyed his whole, I,
Nolberto (55:42)
Mm-hmm.
Uh-huh.
Trevor Hoppe (55:47)
Part of that, I guess, is toxic masculinity. What are the good parts of masculinity that we should kind of promote and kind of foster and feel good about, and how do we separate that from the toxic stuff?
Nolberto (56:02)
a great question. You always ask the smallest questions. Because I’m going to be totally honest with you as I have been my whole life. The first idea that appears in my head is nothing but. Yeah, but I think about it for second and I said, okay,
Trevor Hoppe (56:20)
Right? Yeah, I feel that. I do.
Nolberto (56:27)
One of the first features that I think is like, there’s this like sufficiency, I think that’s the word, when you are…
able to speak your mind. You’re able to say what you want to do, what you want to have, what you want to say, basically. Yeah, that confidence that is like, all right, this is what I need. And even if other people’s tries to convince me that maybe you don’t want this, yes, I want this first. I think there also this crafty feature, like we don’t want to hire other people to fix something in our house.
Trevor Hoppe (56:42)
confidence.
Nolberto (57:03)
We have this confidence. Yes, exactly. I can do it myself. And I can prove myself that I’m good at it. Even if it’s my first attempt to do it, I will prove myself that I’m good enough to do this. It will bring me a satisfaction feeling.
Trevor Hoppe (57:03)
We’re supposed to be handyman.
Nolberto (57:21)
the other thing is like, socially we are encouraged to take some risks. And sometimes we see things as risks, but as opportunities.
Trevor Hoppe (57:27)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Nolberto (57:34)
And
I think that’s a very good thing in terms of, I remember a friend of mine in high school that said, if you don’t want it, we cannot do it again. If you didn’t like it at the end, we cannot do it again. So I think these are three features at last that as an adult I think of masculinity. And of course I’m not rejecting the idea of
that list becoming a bigger list during the following years. If you ask me the same question in one year or two years, maybe I will come with a bigger list.
Trevor Hoppe (58:17)
Definitely. I appreciate that because I think sometimes label of toxic masculinity, often we can see that and we can appreciate what’s bad about masculinity, but I think there are also good elements of it we also want to try to hold onto and not throw out with the bathwater. And as gay men, we obviously have a fraught and troubled
Nolberto (58:23)
you
Mm-hmm.
Trevor Hoppe (58:41)
troubled relationship with masculinity just because of the nature of our society, but reclaiming that, that good stuff I think can be helpful people.
Nolberto (58:43)
Yeah.
Trevor Hoppe (58:50)
always like to end with my favorite segment, Sorted Lives or Untold Tales or SLUT for short. What’s the sluttiest thing you ever did?
Nolberto (58:59)
the sluggiest thing I ever did. I was lucky enough to have a sex club like three blocks away from my house and I was starting prep and prep gave me a lot of permission to do a lot of things so I remember it’s one of my golden memories
Trevor Hoppe (59:09)
Nice.
Nolberto (59:23)
of my sexual life is one of the highlights. My first test to mouth. I like, yeah. My first, I haven’t experienced myself much as a bottom until the recent years and after PrEP. And I have gave myself a tons of options and things to do that I wasn’t able to do. I’m not just thinking that PrEP is…
is doing all the homework because in parallel I have made a lot of thinking and a lot of reflection inside myself and I’m always these people who wonders why and how. So I think that has helped a lot but yes there’s a lot of things that are like my sluttiest The first gangbang is a button.
That was quite memorable
My first orgy. I have tons. I have tons, And there’s some other things that they were like very, very slutty and they sound very good in history, but in real terms, they were very, very sometimes I fulfilled my fantasy of having sex in the beach.
Trevor Hoppe (1:00:23)
Hahaha.
Yeah,
Nolberto (1:00:43)
But it’s very, very uncomfortable. I was like, it sounds very sexy, like doing it and it’s like, no, there’s sand all over me, there’s sand inside of me. No, I need to stop it.
Trevor Hoppe (1:00:54)
Some places you do not want exfoliated with sand. It is just not the place.
Nolberto (1:00:58)
Yes, exactly. Yes.
But it’s good to have this experience because now I know that I don’t want to do it again. And no one is coming here to tell me, how does it feel? I have had the experience for myself and that’s my decision to make.
Trevor Hoppe (1:01:09)
Amen to that.
Amen. Well, that’s a really good place to end. appreciate it. Tell me if listeners or watchers, viewers want to learn more about you, where can they find you online?
Nolberto (1:01:14)
Yeah.
Bye.
Well, they can find me online in Instagram. My Instagram name is Noelle Rofian. I think we can write it down. So it’s my name in Instagram and an X, formerly known as Twitter. There’s lots of nudity and explicit material in X. So it’s NSFW, I think the other letters. Yeah. Instagram is little…
Trevor Hoppe (1:01:32)
Yes, I will tag you of course, yep.
And not safe for work, yes, exactly.
Nolberto (1:01:49)
more about education stuff and the things that I do daily and lots of underwear. That’s where you can find me.
Trevor Hoppe (1:01:56)
Perfect. Thank you so much, Alberto. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom.
Nolberto (1:02:01)
Thank you a lot, thank you for your trust in me, thank you for considering me as one of your guests. You’re a person that I admire a lot in every, and I’m very flattered to be here.
Trevor Hoppe (1:02:11)
Well, the feeling is mutual, for sure.
Trevor Hoppe (1:02:15)
That’s our show for today. As always, thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, leave us a review on Apple, on Spotify, YouTube, wherever you get your content. We would be most grateful for that kind of feedback. It keeps us going. And remember, if you aren’t having your best sex life, I can help. My services as a sex coach are designed to help you identify and overcome.
those obstacles that are standing between you and your best sex life. Find out more on my website, thebestcasex.net. Till next time.
