OVERVIEW:
What makes for truly great sex? Sure, physical attraction matters, but at the heart of the best experiences is something deeper: intimacy. This week, host Dr. Trevor Hoppe sits down with Shane Lukas, a sex worker turned entrepreneur whose empathy-driven design business, A Great Idea, helps foster connection and community. From growing up queer in rural Illinois to exploring the complexities of public and private sex, Shane shares his journey toward understanding the transformative power of intimacy. Along the way, they dive into how queer desire is inherently political, the courage it takes to express your wants, and how listening—to others and to yourself—is the secret to becoming a better lover. Whether you’re looking to build deeper connections or just navigating Grindr, Shane’s wisdom will challenge the way you think about sex, desire, and the human body. Tune in for a thoughtful and candid conversation that will leave you feeling inspired to explore your own intimate possibilities.
TRANSCRIPT:
Trevor Hoppe (00:09)
Hey, welcome to The Best Gay Sex Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Trevor Hoppe. Today’s episode is about intimacy. You know, if I was walking down the street and I asked a random guy, what do you think makes for great sex the best sex? Nine times out of 10, most guys might start prattling off a list of physical attributes. know, they want that big dick, that fat ass, or those juicy lips. But ask a different question.
Instead ask, tell me a story about the time that you had the best sex of your life. And I bet, although those superficial qualities matter, of course, know, not gonna lie, a big dick or whatever can be fun. But what often rises to the surface instead is that magical transcendental experience of bonding that makes sex special. That’s intimacy. That’s what’s driving us often.
to open up Grindr, or to head down to Steamworks if you’re in Chicago, or log on to Sniffies But toxic masculinity has wormed its way into our little brains and convinced us that sex is just about getting off. But today’s guest reminds us it is so much deeper than that. Shane Lukas has made something of a career out of intimacy. First, as a professional sex worker, he developed an
intimate understanding of what drives us, especially as men, to seek out sexual connection. you know, spoiler alert, it’s not just about the nut. Today, through his graphic design firm, A Great Idea, Shane continues to find ways to promote intimacy and connection through his quote unquote empathy led design services. Let’s listen in.
Trevor Hoppe (02:01)
Shane Lukas welcome to the Best Gay Sex Podcast.
Shane Lukas (02:04)
Thank you, Trevor. Glad to be here.
Trevor Hoppe (02:06)
It is a pleasure to have you. I have been an admirer for many years and I’m so glad we got the chance to connect finally through my husband. And I am very curious for people out there, tell us a little bit about before we get into like kind of the work you do now and how you got to where you are. Like where did you grow up? Like situate us in like young Shane’s life. Like where is this taking place?
Shane Lukas (02:28)
I grew up in the Midwest in the rural part of central Illinois and so spent most of my life out in the fields and just kind of exploring the great vast nothing that is cornfields and soy fields.
Trevor Hoppe (02:45)
Well that sounds like an interesting place to be queer.
Shane Lukas (02:48)
There were not a lot of out queer folks back then, right? So I just turned 50 this year. So this is way back, this is the way back machine. So there weren’t a lot of people who were out, but there were some really courageous people who were. And I think that was great to see early on grow.
Trevor Hoppe (03:03)
What do you think, as a young queer person growing up in that context, like, when did you start to feel like, you know, maybe you were a little different from the other guys?
Shane Lukas (03:15)
I’ll be honest, I actually didn’t even, it didn’t really cross my mind that that was my story or my identity until I was dating a person who’s a cisgender female and now non -binary identified, but they and I had this conversation and debate about what it meant to look at your significant other in this sort of checklist, like what are the things that matter? And the things that mattered to me the most weren’t
the body parts. They were really like all these other components of themselves. And that really kind of broke open after a long discussion about what my affection, what my pleasure centers, what all these things could come from. And I think that is what opened the door. And I will say…
I was also a theater kid. so the accused of being gay and a lot of the sort of fey or fem kind of things that ended up coming out of performance and that kind of stuff is common. But I didn’t really take that to heart as that was my story. I wasn’t necessarily stuck with the stigma of it. I just wasn’t sure it was my story. I think for me, I came to it intellectually more than I think by experience. By the time I was 17, and I came out at 17, once her argument made sense, I was like, makes sense to me.
Trevor Hoppe (04:29)
You’re like convinced, yeah. When you came out, did you come out as a gay man, bisexual? What terms were you using?
Shane Lukas (04:35)
It’s a great question. I, cause back then the languages were so limiting. And I think, knew, would say by, cause, and I would say even to this day, like why, where I came to the term queer, very much felt at home. My first publishing experience was poetry in a bisexual publication or my first national experience. And so to me, I always came to embrace queer and the possibilities of queer early on, even before I could really articulate that language.
Trevor Hoppe (04:40)
Yeah.
fascinating because queer you know went through a kind of renaissance in the 90s as this like terminology that people use are we talking about that time is that when you would have used that term
Shane Lukas (05:13)
Yeah, because it actually, know, queer was already being used even in the 1960s and early 1970s, it was used as a rebellious phrase, right? Like there was, you know, I’m here and I’m queer, there’s lots of, there were uses amongst a lot of advocates and activists already of the term. And when I came out, a good example of what happened at the same time is that David Wojnarowicz work made its first national exhibition in my hometown.
at one of the state universities. And so while I didn’t identify at the same time within that story, it was sort of like it lived in the subtext of this environment where there were so many universities and there were so many people who were already engaging at that time in the AIDS epidemic, which was very much in motion. And I think I came to understand queerness, if you will, just kind of unconsciously. So by the time I came to understand it academically and intellectually, I was on board.
Trevor Hoppe (05:41)
Wow.
Shane Lukas (06:09)
But I think the conversation to bisexuality at the time was the sort of natural way. It wasn’t that I was afraid to be gay. It was that like, I can understand my sexual self in a way that isn’t limited by this confine. And while I’m a masculinist, like why generally I’m attracted more to men, more to people who are sort of masculine center. I generally understand also that I’m also attracted to people sort of in a broader gender identity spectrum.
Trevor Hoppe (06:39)
and those early, like your first forays into sexual experiences, what were they like?
Shane Lukas (06:46)
I started with Planned Parenthood as an activist when I was 14 years before I had sex. And so the first time I had sex was on my birthday with my girlfriend at the time, who was not the same person who introduced me to bisexuality.
Trevor Hoppe (06:51)
Wow. Wow.
Shane Lukas (07:04)
But it was like very strange experience for me and at the same time I loved it. Obviously before that there had been some interaction I think with different, I would say sexually charged experiences. So they weren’t necessarily engaging in intimacy but there were definitely moments of sort of friction with like my babysitter’s daughters and stuff like that. There were definitely pieces of that. I don’t know that I ever felt at home in it. I don’t think, you we’re not taught to…
comfortable in our own bodies. They’re not comfortable to be taught with these contexts. And so I think I was always kind of like, everything just felt like, I don’t know if I should be here. I’m not sure I should be here. Like, how does this work? I don’t even know how this works. And so, you know, other than discovering masturbation, which is great, like
Trevor Hoppe (07:44)
That’s a good way to describe it. Yeah.
Shane Lukas (07:52)
Those things, sure, but to have shared experiences, I think that was not something that it even crossed my mind at the time. There was just so much trauma at home. There was so much instability at home that I think my personality was just very much geared about how do I just not make a mess in life. so I think coming to the idea of my sexual self and my relationship self.
very much probably is parallel for a lot of people as they’re kind of evolving into that pubescence and through that process. It’s clumsy AF, is all I’m saying.
Trevor Hoppe (08:25)
Yeah, yeah, but what… Clumsy is a nice little catchphrase to think about what youth sexuality can be like because it really can be very clumsy for sure. When did you discover like sex with men? Like what was the first kind of experience where you were… yeah.
Shane Lukas (08:43)
was terrible. It was awful. It was awful. It was awful. Now, it’s weird though, in some ways, because it was awful, but it was also very much, in some ways, I would spend chunks of my life kind of living through this experience to explore it more. It was a public experience. It was a guy who was driving around in the downtown of where I grew up. There was this adult bookstore in the center and people would call, it was called The Loop.
which is again, many cities have similar things. I would write my honors thesis on public sex in college. So I would spend years working on essentially researching and talking about the way that public sex spaces are created and structured to sort of create affirmation cycles and other forms for people to find safety, security and connection at least on their own terms within that space. So.
without going on too long. Essentially, like, I found somebody who was driving around, I went back to their place, it was horrid, it was the terrible experience. Lots of… But also, like, lots of intrigue and there’s a certain grisly, dirty grittiness that lives within kind of these, you know, anonymous kind of things that I also have come to love over time. So I was certainly…
Trevor Hoppe (09:50)
Hmm.
Shane Lukas (10:00)
not in the right headspace to be there. couldn’t have set parameters around my own safety if I’d wanted to because I didn’t know how to articulate them. And so there are things that could have gone much worse than they did, but it was also not enjoyable. So I will go with both of those things.
Trevor Hoppe (10:14)
Yeah. I feel that it’s like, you know, sex can be complicated, right? It can be both good and bad at the same time. You can hold those things in, you know, in your hands and deal with that duality. That seems like it started you on an adventure around public sex, like maybe a lifelong adventure. like, what, does public sex, what did that mean to you? Like, why do you think that’s part of your story?
Shane Lukas (10:31)
You
You know, first of all, there weren’t a lot of other options. And so, you know, for young queer people or, you know, there weren’t a lot of places to connect if you were under the age of 21. And, you know, you weren’t able to access bars, especially at that time. So we’re in the late 90s. So between fears around HIV circumversion or fears around violence, that kind of stuff, there were a lot of limitations as to where you could connect with other people.
And so public sex spaces are and or were and still are, which is something that I’ve been really kind of interested in the current sort of space that they take. So it’s a different conversation. But like at the time, right, those were really necessary spaces. So not everybody engaged in public sex spaces was engaged in public sex, which is also really important. They became themselves community enclaves of safety. So individuals, there were plenty of at the time what we would call fag hags or, you know,
cis women who would hang around straight men, or gay men, or at least, you know, closeted men and kind of hang out. They would also hang out in the spaces. There were some people who were playing with gender identities who were also playing with, you know, were living in those spaces and may not be engaged sexually, may or may not. But there was this idea of this young and older population that would play this interweaving game.
And it was a game of affirmation. It was a game of engagement. It was a game of learning. It was a game of mentoring in some contexts. Again, sometimes predatory, sometimes not. But it was fascinating that way. And I think I came to love the sort of subcultural, socio -cultural geography of it. And I always fell in love with it. I just fell in love with it. I fell in love.
Trevor Hoppe (12:21)
Yeah, that’s fabulous. I think you’re right that at a certain time and context, like public sex spaces were critical and they remain critical but for different reasons today than in the past and different groups use them in different ways and that changes over time obviously.
How did you know what to do, I guess, is really what I’m curious with. Because I think that’s a question that a lot of us struggle with as young queer people, like in those first sexual experiences with men.
Shane Lukas (12:49)
my gosh, again, clumsy is the only word I can think about it is that we tend to be, you know, we’re all, everybody’s clumsy. mean, I think wherever you are in the sexual identity spectrum, invariably, if you come in having the rule book already in hand, one, you’re probably doing it wrong. And two, right? Like, you also don’t leave room for exploration and finding the places that you find pleasure.
Trevor Hoppe (13:05)
Yeah.
Shane Lukas (13:12)
So to me, I think what I’ve always been drawn to in intimacy is the connection with the other person. Now, it’s not that I don’t like anonymous play or that I don’t like play where you don’t have that level of involvement. Foucault was very influential for me and so there’s always this sort of fantastical nature of a dark room with just bodies hanging out and like, sure, and there’s part of me that loves that.
But what I really enjoy is the connection. Like I really find value in the humanity of it. And I think the different body types, the different experiences. And so to me, always, I think that always was invigorating for me. And so I learned by listening to other people’s bodies. Like that was really important to me.
Trevor Hoppe (13:56)
Tell me about listening to other people’s bodies, because I think people struggle with that. They want to do everything verbally, you know, with words. And obviously there’s a lot that isn’t done without words. What does it mean to listen to someone’s body to you?
Shane Lukas (14:11)
I think sometimes it just means some patience to not…
to give them contact in a way that isn’t always directly to like genitals or other parts of the body in that way. Like sometimes it is the more subtle spaces that lets people relax because the pressure’s not in the same point. And you can listen to what brings them pleasure to feel them relax, to feel them, and also just to be enjoyed. I know it sounds weird to say, but like so much, and there are places for it. Again, there’s glory holes, there’s plenty of places that you can enjoy and just…
straight -up genitalia play, like not a lot else going on, right? Fine, great, enjoy it. There’s also toys for that. But I think what I really like about the human interaction is like I want to be able to connect with you. sometimes that’s just like shoulder, like just touching the shoulder in the right way and seeing how they respond, like do they want to be touched? Are they comfortable with that level of touch? It’s interesting to me how many people are not.
And that part, think, is something that I learned early on just from public engagement and just kind of what that meant. And then in my own personal life, as I started to integrate it, to me, it became a critical piece to understand where people are at and how to connect with them, especially when I care about them.
Trevor Hoppe (15:29)
Yeah, and so like, it’s like that listening right? It’s feeling when someone kind of pulls away or resists touch and that, as you say, can be instructive far more than words because it might not even be something they’re conscious of. And that’s really adds to the complexity and beauty of sex. It’s what makes it kind of magical is that it’s…
Shane Lukas (15:52)
or they lean into a feeling they just never have been, they’ve never had. Like there are sometimes, and this again, we could talk about sort of the gender representations here. are probably, in my experience, like to be touched a bit differently. And oftentimes I think…
I wish cis men or at least the individuals, the sort of masculine of center folks who do touch them would sometimes take a step back a little bit. And I think I learned by many of the women in my history and then many of the women in my community who are very confident in their agency, who are very confident in the ways they like being touched to acknowledge that like there is something really important about living into that touch and also that consent piece. And I don’t mean consent like an overt like I need
formal consent, but that consent that like, yes, this feels good or yes, this feels safe, this feels like you’re not gonna hurt me, especially particularly in incidences where you are with people you don’t know and it is sort of— or they as men aren’t comfortable with their own bodies and you have to sort of wrestle with that. And again, all people wrestle with that across all genders, but masculine representations of that can sometimes be brutal.
brutish, you know, they can push back really hard like, no, man, just a dick. And you’re like, okay, we know how this is gonna go. Like, this is not, I’m not sure this is working for me. And I’ve had situations like that where I’ve been like, I’m not sure this is gonna be, sometimes it is, sure, I’m not, know, whatever, sometimes I’m into it. But if I’m not into it, like sometimes I’m like, it’s not for me. Like, that’s not really, like if that’s what, if it’s just transactional, it’s okay. Sometimes it’s got a place. But generally speaking,
I think it’s also listening for that pleasure.
Trevor Hoppe (17:38)
I hear you say that you really prize and value this form of kind of deep intimate connection and kind of have learned over time that that transactional, that the transactional sex is less appealing. Do you, are there some experiences in your head where you feel like you learned that lesson that were, you know, that were bad, that were instructive though in terms of learning like what you think you wanted for the future?
Shane Lukas (18:04)
It’s hard to answer that in sort of an absolute. I think it’s sometimes how you enter the space or you enter the engagement, right? Like if I’m going into a back room in a bar in Europe, It’s my expectations of what the transactional nature of the engagement will be is different. That being said, I have had some great experiences with people that I still have contact with that I expected to just be, you know, like fully transactional and were not.
Trevor Hoppe (18:27)
You
Shane Lukas (18:34)
And so I think to me, I’m always open to sort of seeing and reading where the other person is. And if it’s so cold and so in some ways very selfish, I’m really not interested in that level of selfishness. I know it’s, and again, there’s no harm in it, not a judgment here. Some people can go in and they want selfishness and there are some people who are just very eager to serve and that is, that’s great. I have a pro, I’m certainly, I have a dominant nature. So I get that.
I like a little bit more engagement that way. And so I think I can very early on tell when that friction’s there about what I want and what they want. And you just kind of, again, sometimes it’s unspoken and you negotiate and be like, I think it’s time for me to step out. Can you answer your question a little bit?
Trevor Hoppe (19:19)
Yeah, definitely. I really, I’m thinking about young people and a lot of young people have fear around bad experiences and that holds them back from having maybe any experiences sometimes. And so I try to give people some practical advice for how to negotiate those bad experiences. I guess, so maybe rephrasing it in those ways, like, do you think there are tips?
that would work for people trying to negotiate those experiences where they feel like, this is not kind of what I had.
Shane Lukas (19:51)
I mean, the number one thing I’m always gonna say is, and not everybody feels capable of doing this, right? Like having the confidence to be like, hey, we’re good. Like, that’s good, that’s enough, I’m good, right? Like being able to draw a line and be like, hey, thank you, I’m gonna step out and we’re good. How you respond to somebody who may not be able to hear that message, that takes a lot more courage and I think also being cognizant of the space you’re in.
So again, if you are not comfortable drawing those boundaries, really choosing spaces where you can be heard. So when music’s not so loud, when there’s space, when somebody can clearly get your signals. If you’re trying to do this in a back room.
with no light or an adult arcade with no light. Like, I don’t know how you’re, you might not be seen. They might not be able to hear you. There’s things like that that have to be considered. So finding ways to do that. Again, like that’s a way to stop it from happening. If you’re in the middle of one and you don’t know what to do, gosh, over the years I kind of learned how to deal with it. I know that’s not the best answer and I’m not sure that’s gonna help young people in that way.
But I was also, I have a history as an escort, I’ve got a history in doing different, in doing sex work. so negotiating bad sex is kind of like part of the work. And so, yeah, do I get a tip? So, but I hear your question and I think it’s a very valid one. I think what I wish there were were more spaces for young people to have those conversations.
Trevor Hoppe (21:08)
That’s the job.
Shane Lukas (21:24)
about, you with their friends, with other people to say like, whoa, I didn’t know what to do here. I was not enjoying this. You know, whether it’s physical, like this person does not know how to suck a dick. That is a distinct, that is a distinct conversation to have. Or whether this person really made me feel threatened, like this person really made me feel nervous. This person made me feel like they were going to violate my boundaries. And how do I do that? And I think that I would love to see more conversation about, I know.
It’s been a big motivation for me within the harm reduction movement to encourage that.
Trevor Hoppe (21:57)
Yeah, exactly. I think the idea of saying no is so easy and just like the idea of saying yes, think it’s conversely like we have this idea that we’re just going to know what we want and know what we don’t want and like easy peasy. We just say no to what we don’t want and say wait, yes, what do you… But in practice when you’re faced with a real -life human being who has feelings who might be your boyfriend or someone you really are attracted to, it’s a different ball game altogether. So I just…
I’m always kind of in search of like how to like help young people think about those situations because you have to kind of kiss a lot of frogs to get to the, I don’t know what the metaphor is, but to get to the good stuff, right? Like there’s a lot of not great stuff on the way.
Shane Lukas (22:44)
I mean, but the mistakes are, you know, the mistakes can be good. Like you said, they’re, not, not, I think the hunt, the hunt for a prince sometimes can overtake the actual moments to enjoy the experience you’re having and to remember that it’s not forever. And to take from that, there’s different versions and pleasures you may not know that you have as you learn someone else’s body and learn someone else’s, because again,
separate from threat, separate from somebody who’s doing you harm. There’s all those things that are healthy boundaries to have. But yeah, I mean, sometimes you’re with someone with a different body type or a different sense of pleasure and all of that. And to just give the chance to listen to that, one, it makes you a better lover. I mean, it really does. It makes you recognize because the person that you’re, you know, the big hottie that you’re dating right now is gonna be 10 years older at some juncture.
And if you don’t learn how to like work with them and their bodies as they age, then that will be a point of friction. If you don’t learn how to work with your own body as you age, it’ll be a point of friction. And not good friction.
Trevor Hoppe (23:46)
That’s, yeah, exactly, that’s a good point. Like we can desire what is now, but the future will be different than the now. And we have to kind of anticipate that. I think that’s productive, although I doubt that’s something many people can hear very well, especially young people, right? It’s just sort of far in the future, distant. Thinking about that phase of sexual development for you, do you?
Were you using terms like top and bottom back in the day when you were first starting to have sex with men?
Shane Lukas (24:19)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I didn’t really bottom very much early on. I think part of it was coming out when I did. So I was 17 in what, 1991. So, you know, again, coming through college, through the 90s in college, like that’s definitely an apex.
of lot of the conversations around HIV and all those things. so I think positionality was a big part of the conversation. I wasn’t, I think I was cognizant, but I was certainly sexually active in a way that to me, stigmatizing people living with HIV then didn’t make any sense, especially as I became an educator years after that.
But it was already part of my core philosophy, I think, long before that, where I paid attention to the facts, I paid attention to the things, whether condoms and all the different, I was very rigorous on condom usage, for example, prior to prep usage and things like that. But this kind of rigor was kind of standard and positionality was part of it. And I think that eventually would come to be part of the conversation around the toolkit that people have to prevent seroconversion, HIV seroconversion particularly.
that was the big thing was about pitching that positionality. And so I think I was very much a rigorous top for a really long time, for a long, time.
Trevor Hoppe (25:35)
And that was strategic.
Shane Lukas (25:37)
It was subconsciously, I’m sure, strategic. I mean, I certainly bottomed and it didn’t happen very often, but I’m grateful that when it did and if it was, like for example, with Alcondoms when I was really, really young and I was still sort of learning by the ropes, I’m glad it was done in rural Iowa. I’m glad it was done with a close couple. There were things like that that I am in retrospect, like whew, but.
At the same time, not all my peers had that opportunity. even I was sort of, I would consider myself relatively knowledgeable then. I mean, I was always learning, like, compared to many of my peers. And I was certainly not always making the decisions that were my best benefit down the road. And I think that would inform my harm reduction work later. But I think topping was a very easy way for me to do that. It was a very easy way for me to sort of think of my risk as less.
Trevor Hoppe (26:29)
Yeah, at the time, back in the day, this is like a time capsule now. We’re talking about pre -prep era. You know, it’s crazy to think that prep is in 12 years now. But we talked about that as strategic positioning. People would make decisions based on positionality in relationship to HIV. And so that’s helpful to kind of hear what that experience is like, because I think a lot of, young people, just don’t, they don’t have a, that’s not a reference point anymore, I think, in a post -prep era.
Shane Lukas (26:58)
Which is good and bad.
Trevor Hoppe (26:58)
And certainly what a, yeah exactly, right? Like it’s just a sort of fact of the context we’re in now. It’s not necessarily value -laden, it just is.
Shane Lukas (27:07)
or a side. Like we didn’t have sides then. So go sides. Go sides.
Trevor Hoppe (27:11)
Right? I know this term is popping up everywhere. So today you still would mostly use the word top to describe yourself.
Shane Lukas (27:21)
No, I’m very versatile. I love my versatility. No, are you kidding me? But again, I’m not a power bottom. not. So I definitely prefer certainly versatile play. It’s a big thing. Even as a dom, like subs to me, I prefer them to be versatile. And so to me, that’s part of it. Because again, it comes back to pleasure, comfort.
They’re one of my favorites, one of the cis women that I just am deeply enamored with. I won’t name names, but she’s very, one of the most beautiful people I’ve ever met, one of the greatest people I’ve ever had collaboration with. She used to fist her boyfriend. And like part of what I loved about being in community with so many people with such levels of confidence about their bodies, about the ways they live, the way they exist in this world.
is that they always came to the conversation with this idea that positionality didn’t determine whether someone’s role. And in queer culture, it’s often been that case where that has somehow been a diminishing characteristic or it’s been a limiting characteristic. And I think, I just appreciate that the models in my life were like, it’s your body. You should work with it as you want.
Trevor Hoppe (28:35)
love that. It’s actual mentors, basically, who kind of gave you different ways of thinking about the world, it sounds like. Yeah.
Shane Lukas (28:44)
and just different ways of thinking my own body. So when I hear that voice in my head, like, I’m a bottom, I’m like, but you know, it’s also about listening to my own body. I am not a power bottom. can, there are certain times, you know, there are certain ways that I want to enjoy with it, enjoy it. If I want to be comfortable, there are certain things I have to know if my body’s not up for it, if my body’s not here. So we’re not into it today. So that’s not where we’re gonna go.
Trevor Hoppe (29:04)
Yeah?
Shane Lukas (29:05)
that takes some listening and I think it also takes a little bit of practice and being able to be in tune with your body. And I think, I hope that young people and all people have an opportunity, at all ages do that. Because I think even senior, I would say more mature population community members, that’s a big issue that I feel like I see these days.
Trevor Hoppe (29:23)
guess I’m thinking of two kind of parallel phenomena and I’m wondering if you’re just your take on them. One is the possibility that over time we become more comfortable with nuance in our own sexuality and are able to practice being like a submissive top, which is, you know, maybe as a young person not as obvious a choice. Or, and or really,
Conversely, I think there’s been an explosion of vocabulary, as we all know, that now like passive top is a choice on like sniffies, for example. And that just, I mean, what? Like that’s a new kind of phrase.
Shane Lukas (30:01)
Some of them always were, so that’s not new.
Trevor Hoppe (30:03)
No, exactly, right? So is it that the vocabulary is like reshaping us? What do think the causal relationship is there between us and these concepts?
Shane Lukas (30:19)
I think the vocabulary is just reflecting the realities that were always there. Like one of my favorite things, one of my favorite terms that’s evolved is homo flexible, right? So homo flexible to me is one of the most fascinating terms and marks a significant change in the way the gay people were so threatened by an attraction to opposite sex engagement or sort of a broader gender rep relationship in their sexual engagement because they were like, traitor, right? Like I said, my first publication was in a bisexual publication, so I was a traitor to everybody.
Trevor Hoppe (30:28)
Mm -hmm.
Shane Lukas (30:49)
And so this idea that one could primarily engage in, you know, homosexual and homoerotic behavior, but recognize that, like, I could be attracted to, or I could be turned on, or I could find pleasure from a different experience. Love it. So to me, the changes in language actually are more… they’re more representative.
And what I love is they give us a much freer sense about thinking about how we can evolve not just where we are today, but where we’re going and where we’ve been. And I think it’s important to note that there’s a temporal aspect to that too. So where you are today is not where you’re to be in 10 years and that you’re able to sort of shape your body. Maybe today you’re pansexual, you might down the road feel like you’re not, that you are more directed or more interested in a particular gender identity than another.
That’s great. I love it. I love being able to honor it and name it and put it in the room and be like, yeah, yeah, like that’s my story. So to me, love it. Love it.
Trevor Hoppe (31:48)
Love the new vocab. I mean, I mostly agree, right? Like there’s a part of me that’s like an kind of an old crotchety man who’s like, we need a term for everything. But on the other hand, especially with my students, really see they find these, they find many of these new terms like really valuable to like kind of validate their own experience that they were already having really. it’s not like it’s, know, so I hear you. just, it’s something I think about a lot, like, right?
Are these terms, some people would argue that these terms hinder us, that they limit our possibilities. And sometimes I find that appealing and I don’t know.
Shane Lukas (32:27)
I mean, the binary is very comfortable because if it’s not this, then it’s that. If it’s not this, then it’s that.
How many people live within the far extremes of that? mean, whether you’re talking about the Kinsey scale and that’s antiquated, right? Or whether or not—whatever you want to talk—no matter where you want to talk about anything, there’s no real black and white. Most of us live in this middle of the gray. And I think what I love about the expansion of language is that, is it both prohibitive and does it—is it also liberatory? Absolutely. And as a queer person, live into that because that’s all a queer is about. It is about the living dichotomies and holding the multiple things at the same hands, like testicles, I guess.
Holding them in the same hand and being okay with it and recognizing the human experience is this very complex journey. And it is this space where people are going to sometimes not even be aware of what their desires are. It assumes that everyone knows themselves so well. And I think I come from a school of Foucaultian analytics where I’m like, I don’t think you know yourself at all.
I think you are working through a story and you’re hearing it as it happens, but honestly, you’re mostly playing back its history and its predictability is very impossible. It’s very difficult for you to get to. You think you know what you’re gonna do until you’re there and then you don’t. And then you’re like, whoa.
What was that about? And you’re like, ha ha, surprise, that’s how life happens. And I think what I love about this new language, about this vocabulary, is that it creates an imagination of what’s possible when I think about my own story and the decisions I want to make. And I think that is what I fought for, that every person be seen in the language and the story that they wish to tell. And I think that to me is a beautiful thing.
Trevor Hoppe (34:03)
Is there an experience? Yeah, I saw you smile there. I’m just thinking, is there an experience you’re thinking of there where you’re like, you thought you knew what you’re going to do, but then surprise?
Shane Lukas (34:10)
I mean, there are many, right? Like there’s sometimes where I feel like I’m gonna be really bold and I’m gonna go into this fisting experience and I’m gonna do great. And I remember this one time, I was like, I was having this interaction and this guy was like, like really gonna go and then he pulls out a glove. And I was like, I don’t know that I can do this. I’m really nervous now, cause I was like, fisting, like fist.
Done! And I was like, but then I realized, fist body complicated. And then how long it took. Like that was the other, I think I’m just grossly impatient. also, unless they are really practiced, fisting bottom takes a long time and a lot of poppers and I can’t, yeah, it’s a lot of poppers. So, yeah. And I wasn’t really prepared for that. And I was like,
Trevor Hoppe (34:59)
Yeah.
Yeah
Shane Lukas (35:08)
I can do it, but now my expectations are very different.
Trevor Hoppe (35:11)
So I have sober friends. Do poppers… Is sobriety and fisting incompatible? Is there a way to do it without poppers? I don’t know because I’m not part of that community.
Shane Lukas (35:23)
It’s a great question. I am also not in that community. So I learn and talk to other people. It’s certainly been integral for people to relax enough and kind of get the sphincter kind of like to a place where they can, they’re comfortable. I imagine, like I have, I would love to try.
But I’ve never been able to get that comfortable. Like I said, I have a negotiated relationship with Zavodum and I do enjoy it. But there are people who look aspirationally at that more than I do. And I think if I were comfortable enough, I would like to try. I don’t know that I’ve never done poppers. Again, I’ve been mostly, well, I’ve been sober my whole life. And so not that poppers necessarily exclude that. I think, again, there’s this sort of wave of stuff.
That’s it in that. I think I always associate it with VHS and so my head always just goes to a rental store every time I smell it. Yeah, so I don’t know what the answer to that is. All I know is I’m always willing to try stuff, but I would wanna try to do it as naturally as possible and I don’t know that my body, I don’t know that it can get relaxed enough.
Trevor Hoppe (36:33)
Yeah, I mean, I feel that. It takes a deep state of relaxation for sure, from what I understand to get to that point. And poppers do, since you mentioned it, I was just kind of curious, because it seems to be those things are always related, but.
I’m curious, I ask this question sometimes because I think it helps us to get to some of the intricacies of how we get what we want and how we treat other people and how we build a sexual community. After you have a bad encounter with someone, and let’s say not a client, right, there’s someone outside of that sex work experience, are you willing to go back and try again?
Shane Lukas (37:19)
gosh. It depends again on the setup, right? Like sometimes it’s bad because you’re not in the right head space. Sometimes it’s bad because they’re not listening yet. It depends on any other connection I have. Now, you know, again, if it’s a random encounter, no, probably not. Probably not. Or my expectations change. Like, this is definitely gonna be like.
a hand job circuit because that’s a place I can still have my control. I don’t need to depend on them. It’s fine. I can rub their furry chest or whatever and this is fine. Happy day. So, you I can draw those boundaries about physical proximity, right? So if it’s like an anonymous account or public account or something like that.
If it’s somebody that I’m close to, that’s harder to talk about because it depends on where they’re at and what they’re looking for from it and what my regular engagements look like. So if it’s somebody that I’m going to interact with often, I’m usually pretty cautious about having any sexual encounters anyways, unless it’s somebody that I know I’m going to have that negotiation with on a regular basis. But I would say yes, sometimes if the connection is there and the emotional and intellectual connection is there, because I’m probably a sapiosexual at heart.
Like I’m definitely drawn to the intellect. But I think I would restructure the boundaries and restructure kind of what the engagement looks like. So if they’re not particularly good in a particular way or there’s just something that’s kind of a mismatch somehow, sometimes it’s just, know, cuddling and petting is fine too. There’s lots of different ways to show intimacy, you know, beyond f***ing
Trevor Hoppe (38:36)
you
Can you think of a time you’ve changed course like that? I mean, we sort of addressed that, I guess. I’m just curious, like, you thought one thing was going on the menu and then padding or whatever or something, something totally different and that became like, that was fine, like that was good.
Shane Lukas (39:06)
Yeah, mean, in terms of an experience in the past, I would say there are people who the bravado can sometimes be more than the outcome. And I think that’s more of a statement about queer cultures sentiment that one’s value is their sexual vitality.
And so they go into it as if they have to prove something and it’s like not great because it’s not really where they are and in some ways you’re just dealing with a sort of false expectation out of it. And so once you can sort of change that expectation, then you can go back and be like, well, this is who you are and where you’re at. And I like that. And I could be willing to go back into that scenario.
with that mindset and you don’t have to perform in a way that isn’t natural for you. And I found in the past when I’ve done that, somebody I played with years ago who very much kind of came into it like, I’ve gotta be all like, I’m gonna eat your ass and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
Trevor Hoppe (40:19)
MAH F*** YOU IN HA
Shane Lukas (40:25)
And I was like, my God, stop it. And it’s okay. because that’s not, we set up this thing where one’s value is their vitality. And I think about this as I age. I don’t want to go on too long about it, but like essentially I think about those things as I age as a factor.
Trevor Hoppe (40:43)
definitely that the bravado is real out there and I’m guilty of it. I think we’re all guilty of it too, right? Like, because you get caught up in the scripts and the scripts are so like, can be wild. I mean, you you’re not…
Shane Lukas (40:56)
Do you change your voice? Do you change your voice? Do you get like a bravado like, I’d like you to do me good or I’d like to do you good. Like do get that? Look at you blushing. Look, you got it, you got it right there. Do you do that? Do you do that like?
Trevor Hoppe (41:11)
No comment.
Shane Lukas (41:12)
Please, please do it so I can make this my ringtone so I can get like a good ringtone.
Trevor Hoppe (41:15)
I know, right? My husband would have more to say about that than I would, I’m sure. But yeah, I think whether or not we’re conscious of it or not, like we are always sort of performing in all aspects of life. And sex is of course one of those where it can become dramaturgical. I feel like I’m up for an Emmy sometimes or something, you know, like.
Shane Lukas (41:39)
Well, you know, it’s funny though, in talking about this, like there’s a scenario that I really enjoyed. I was traveling and I was at this bar, you know, hanging out and that kind of stuff. And this person comes up, adorable, beautiful, beautiful person. And I wasn’t really particularly planning to hook up. Like that wasn’t really the intention in the night. I mean, who doesn’t love some good flattery? So we’ll go for that. Like who doesn’t love some good flattery, some good affirmation?
I’m a Leo. I’m gonna eat it all, all day, right? So, but what was interesting is that it was not only flirtatious, but we did, we did connect. And then when it came time for, I don’t know what you want to call it, the closing of the deal, right? Like it was very tactical flirtation, adorable, I get beautiful smile, just gorgeous, gorgeous. And tactical thing. And then we’re like, so do we go anywhere? And he looks at me and he’s like, but I just want to cuddle.
Trevor Hoppe (42:11)
Feed me.
Shane Lukas (42:37)
And I was like, yeah. I’m like, I totally would have fed him. I would have totally let him f It was beautiful. And not just beautiful in physical appearance, which he also was, but just in smile and energy and all of that at the same time. But it’s also like, I just want to hang out. I really like this. I like this level of intimacy. And I think I really value that. And so over the years, I’ve been very lucky to have different experiences with that sort of scenario.
Like, the different things like that. But it was notable that it was like… It was almost like he was expecting me to be off -put by it because I think he was expecting, like, there’s this thing that like, now I’ve got to perform. Now we’ve got this flirtation. There’s definitely some sexual energy here. And now what I’m gonna do is now I’m gonna throw water on it. But that’s not really what he did. What he did was say, this is what I’d like to do and I’d like to do that with you. And that invitation is f***ing beautiful.
beautiful and adhered to him to me forever and taught me a lot.
Trevor Hoppe (43:41)
And that confidence also just like in knowing what you want and asking for it is also very sexy. It just in and of itself, right? Like whether or not you know you’re necessarily responsive to it you can appreciate just like the… It’s hot, right? To like to be so sure in that way of what you want. I have a friend, this is Anant Ecuador, but his profile headline is like cuddle therapy because that’s you know, that’s his thing and he gets so much…
action based on that, you know, like, because I think we’re all craving intimacy, you know, like whether or not we want to admit it or not, and especially as men, we’re not really told we should admit that. So, yeah.
Shane Lukas (44:26)
We don’t learn how to do it. We don’t learn intimacy. I think if I’ve employed something as a lover, I love saying that term, it just makes me giggle every time I say it, but as a lover, in intimacy, is, we talked earlier about listening to and that really in some ways is what that is. It is that confidence to know that like,
Trevor Hoppe (44:38)
Yeah.
-huh.
Shane Lukas (44:54)
The pleasure can come from so many parts of the body. It can come from so many places. And, you know, again, speaking as this apiosexual or somebody who very much prioritizes intellect, certainly I know that that’s big turn on for me. Like, you want to quote some, you want to quote some, what, Edna St. Vincent Millet? Fine, great. Well, let’s go have sex now. We’ll do it. So, awesome. Great. Good job. So, whatever. Bring it. So, I think that there is, though, this thing about
in being a good lover, whether you’re in a monogamous relationship, a poly, whether it’s open, whatever the case is, people want to be seen and they want to be heard. And I think anybody who is a good lover and of the people I’ve learned from, whom I’ve either had sex with or engaged intimately with or not, models that I have never had any intimacy with in that context, but have simply brought that not confidence in their lives and who they are, they still wrestle with all the self -esteem issues, but confidence in knowing, listening to their own body.
and being like, is where I am and I’m interested in where other bodies are. And I’m considerate of those other bodies. And that is f***ing sexy.
Trevor Hoppe (45:59)
Looking back on, and I know this is like a difficult question obviously, and there’s no right answer or probably no singular answer, but if you’re looking back on all the sex you’ve had, is there an experience that jumps out as like, this was the best?
Shane Lukas (46:13)
You know, all I can answer to that is I’ve lived in 17 cities and people say which city is the best. Every city brought its own memories. Every city brought its own experiences. What I want.
Trevor Hoppe (46:18)
Hahaha.
Shane Lukas (46:23)
What I’m grateful for is a story that’s just rich in all these different chapters and these pieces. There isn’t one that’s just the best because honestly, again, it depends on the person that I was with and the engagement I have. I don’t know. I know it seems maybe flippant or trite to say like they’re all unique. There’s definitely, you know, moments that stand out, intimate moments that stand out, pieces of unexpected spaces. Like I remember having sex in an alley behind a church on the coast of a foreign nation, like in the moonlit night. Like I’m just jerking off with this guy.
Trevor Hoppe (46:37)
Mm
Shane Lukas (46:53)
and then like rubbing it on the church wall. Like that, sure, right? Like there’s plenty of things that live within the sort of, you know, panoply of experiences that are there, right? But I do, I don’t know if that’s, can I use that word that way? I’m gonna use that word that way. But you know, I think what I’m grateful for is…
Trevor Hoppe (46:58)
Yeah!
Let’s do it. We’re here. Yeah.
Shane Lukas (47:17)
the people that I’ve been able to build relationships with, whether they were short or long term, and I don’t mean relationships like, you romantic relationships, but relationships with people that I’ve come to trust, people I’ve been in contact with for 30, 30 plus years.
that I’ve had intimate engagements with where we both see each other as humans, where we all see each other as connected. And I treasure that. Like it’s a dynamic of a relationship that also has other layers and other pieces to it. And to me, I’m grateful it’s there. And if I never have another intimate experience with that person or those people again, then that’s fine. That’s a shared story that we have. Sometimes we do like 20 years later or whatever it is. And it’s also interesting because we’re also different bodies and different people. So…
I don’t, yeah, I wouldn’t say there’s one. You’re all beautiful. All of you. If you’re watching this and I’ve had sex with you, you’re beautiful.
Trevor Hoppe (48:08)
I love that. I mean, I hear that, of course. I wonder though, maybe not in specific experiences, but what do think the qualities are where you look back and you think like, yes, that was amazing. Like what…
Shane Lukas (48:21)
How am I supposed to choose that? mean, getting f***ed in the back room sometimes was amazing and I don’t have their name. Like getting at the same time like a weekend spent with somebody I had no idea I would expend with on like a vacation ship or whatever it is, also amazing. My partner of 11 years, amazing and I love very much and enjoy the sex that we have, right? So like there are, they’re just all so…
unique in their own way because the people that I’m engaged with are unique in their own way. Gosh, it sounds so trite like a hallmark. Like I feel like it’s gotta be some hallmark card somewhere around that. like you’re special just like f***ing you was too. Maybe, I don’t know. But so there isn’t, I guess that’s what I love. I think what I’ve come to learn without getting, I’m sure I’ve been long -winded. So thank you for your patience on all my long -windedness.
I think what I’ve come to think about as I turn 50 this year right now, right? And also being around sexual and reproductive health, rights and social justice for so many years is I’m grateful that I never lost sight of the humanity of the people that I was engaged with and celebrate like the different.
body types and life experiences and all these things that I was able to connect with in ways that were pleasurable, enjoyable, intimate, fun. my gosh, joy. Joy has to be part of it too in its own right. Like there’s all of those things that for those of us who grew up in the HIV, you know, in the middle of that crisis were just torn from us. And I think the idea to reclaim that and have that as part of our bodies, as part of our experiences, that has been a gift because that was not the story that many people experienced.
that many people had an opportunity to access during that particular wave and I will even say today in an era, you know, again where we’re still seeing so much stigma about sexual behavior around our own bodily autonomy, our freedom for everybody that is just being challenged at every angle. So the joy of it and my gosh, it is fulfilling and replenishing to have that.
Trevor Hoppe (50:28)
does joy look like in sex?
Shane Lukas (50:31)
It is that ex… is that… It’s that look in the eyes when they come. my God, so happy. Such a happy thing. Such a happy thing. But it’s also that moment where they’re like, they just want to touch and like touch in a way that you want to be touched and they can see that from you and they’re reading it back. And you also are getting a chance. So to me, that’s a lot of joy. And that sometimes comes with laughter and it sometimes comes with that grin. my gosh. That…
That joy, that sort of, and that intense moment. Like, you know, again, even in my home life, you know, it really matters a lot to me that there are these moments that just feel very intimate and very, very there and very present. And I just love, like, when the pup looks at me in the eye and like, no. Like, those are things that, yeah, I just think are beautiful.
Trevor Hoppe (51:21)
Mmm. Mmm.
Yeah, I get that 100%. How do you find it?
Shane Lukas (51:34)
Find it. that’s a toughie. You mean like when people are husband hunting or you mean like in the world?
Trevor Hoppe (51:41)
No, mean literally like, you you’re gonna go out there and you’re thinking, you know, I’m looking to have this like sex that has these qualities that you think are really great, like joyful sex. Like, because I hear, you know, like I said, I hear from a lot of young people that like this is not the kind of sex that they’re finding in the world and they’re frustrated by that. So I guess what strategies have you found for finding that connection?
Shane Lukas (52:07)
Be interested in other people. I know it sounds counterintuitive, it’s strange that we have to say it sometimes, but be interested in other people. I think for me, and again, I can only speak for me, that’s what draws me in.
Like there are people I’ve had sex with who I would not consider they’re not the mom. In fact, what’s interesting is as well, I find interesting sometimes is for years, right? Like I worked with sex workers for like 20 years as an activist and still continue to support decriminalization efforts and things like that. But like I was around porn stars and was around escorts and strippers and all these people whose job it was to look beautiful. And that’s great. they and many of them I have deep admiration and appreciation for and affection for.
great relationships there. But I think so many people, including them, oftentimes approached their engagements with other people with a lack of curiosity and a lack of wanting to engage with other people. They were looking for affirmation, which is like, I want to be interesting to you. Like, that’s my goal here. My goal is that I am interesting to you. And I think…
we’re missing a piece where we are interested in the other people, whether you want to call that active listening or they want to call that whatever. But if you’re not interested in them, don’t f*** them. Like, don’t… It won’t be enjoyable, probably. It won’t be particularly great. They won’t listen to you, probably. So, that’s probably… You’re not going get a lot of mutuality out of that. And so, don’t do it. But approach the world to…
hang out with people who you do find interesting, who you do find curious, who you do want to spend time with. And you’ll find that like once, whether you’re naked or with your clothes on, like at that point, if you’re able to sort of expose a little bit of vulnerability with boundaries, all the controls, all the things that are there, but you can still do that, you’ll find that it’s a much more enjoyable experience, even if it’s just stroking out or petting or like, I don’t know, whatever.
Except for that thing, there’s this toy that you can stick your dick in called a something box, which is a very weird toy. And I don’t even know how that thing works. I’ve been looking at it for years, but don’t, maybe don’t do that. I don’t know what that other thing is, but it’s weird because they both say it’s the weirdest ads I’ve ever seen in my life. other than that, give yourself some space to be curious, you know?
Trevor Hoppe (54:31)
Do you think you can do that on the apps?
Shane Lukas (54:34)
think you can. I think you can approach them that way on the apps. Like, I think people People have a portrait of what they think perfection looks like. And again, everybody’s attracted to different stuff, I get that. But it’s worth asking yourself, like, of the things you find most attractive, do they also come with the characteristics that also make them fundamentally unattractive? Can the things coexist at the same time? If somebody’s gonna work 20 hours at the gym to look pretty,
into their job and you are wondering why it is that they’re maybe not as curious about you, that might be part of it.
I’m not saying that they’re necessarily mutually exclusive. There are people I know who are in great fitness and do a lot of different stuff and they are very curious people. But the culture of that, the culture of body image doesn’t necessarily yield itself to a space where there’s a lot of interest in other people. Just like there people who are not physically fit and may be interested in their life and that they’re focused on their problems and their only stuff and they’re not interested in curiosity to you or that kind of stuff. You should be able to listen for that.
And so you can do that in apps. I’ve met great people through apps, great friends, great non -sexual friends, great, you know, friends across the gamut. And that’s usually because I’m also interested in being a human being all the way through. Like my dick, my ass, like all those things. Fine, great. I love my fur. I love my fur. Great. But I hope that you want to spend time with me for a few reasons. If you want to spend time.
Trevor Hoppe (55:58)
Hmm. Yeah, I hear that. I definitely think you can be curious and there is a way to approach guys online where you… You seem like an interesting person. I don’t know. It’s such a stupid baseline level. Like it’s not even that high of a bar and yet man, so many of the messages you get and sometimes send, I have to say I’m guilty of it as we all are, are not that interesting. And so I…
Shane Lukas (56:25)
Great pics!
Trevor Hoppe (56:26)
Yeah, right?! You know, like, And I get the, you know, I don’t know.
Shane Lukas (56:28)
Great pics.
But the risk starts with you, right? The risk starts like, you when I have a profile and that kind of stuff, like my profiles have, you know, some of the basics in there, but they also don’t. They also are like, I refer to myself as an activist all the time. I will put stuff in there about current initiatives that I’m working on. And I actually like people who have profiles sometimes that have probably no…
whether there’s no mutual attraction or not or that kind of stuff. But sometimes I’ll just send it out and be like, that is a great profile. I love that you’re sharing a little bit of yourself and your story here because that tells me that you want to engage with the world in a holistic way, in a whole way, I guess in a whole way too, that’s kind of funny in itself, in a holistic way. But that there are things about which you want to express a curiosity in your life. And I think I enjoy that, even if they don’t overlap with mine.
Trevor Hoppe (57:09)
You
Shane Lukas (57:21)
I really respect that people are willing to put that part of themselves, that part of their story out there.
Trevor Hoppe (57:27)
Yeah, try to give, I hear that, I try to give positive feedback. People have told me maybe I have a praise fetish. I think it’s just, I’m just a nice person sometimes. Like, I don’t know that we need a word for that. That’s my old man thing coming back. But like, I will send those messages and be like, really great profile because I wanna create that environment and many times people don’t respond and that’s totally fine but I just wanna like put that positive energy out in the world no matter what guys do with it.
Shane Lukas (57:39)
You Midwesterners. I relate.
Trevor Hoppe (57:56)
I think it’s.
Shane Lukas (57:59)
I mean, it says a lot about also the sex that maybe you and I both have, right? Like it says that we are interested in people. And I think fundamentally, certainly sex is about pleasure. There’s a certain space for anonymity and anonymous play and that kind of stuff.
I get it, but like the brain is also a sexual organ and I because I’ve lived my life sober. So half the point of inebriation is to dull a lot of experience. I live eyes wide open. So I want my experiences to be meaningful. I want them to be engaged. I want to be engaged with them because it’s awesome. Otherwise I do something else. So I think it says a lot about you when you responded to people online that
I think for people who are struggling with that and having the courage to be able to do that, I think it is finding different points in your personality that you feel like you want to share, that you feel comfortable sharing, and making it an invitation for people to come hang out with me. I’m cool.
Trevor Hoppe (58:57)
than building a wall. And I think a lot of people build walls with their profiles, know this, that, or this. And it’s like, well, tell me what you do like. What are you, rather than frame it in a negative. Anyways, that’s another big mantra of mine, like make it positive. Make it positive. Like, why is it so negative? Anyway, I like to end every interview with a segment I call Sorted Lives and Untold Tales, or SLUT for short. What’s the sluttiest thing you’ve ever done?
Shane Lukas (59:16)
Love it.
Ooh, okay.
Gosh.
Trevor Hoppe (59:29)
Go through the Rolodex.
Shane Lukas (59:30)
Here’s the thing, I have epically failed. You know what? I’m gonna take a different tack on this. I have epically failed trying to do the sluttiest things I’ve ever done. I have had a room at the Parliament House and I have left the door open and no one came in.
Trevor Hoppe (59:41)
-huh.
That would be me. I feel you.
Shane Lukas (59:47)
I have tried to throw sex parties and I couldn’t get no nothing. And I don’t know if I like didn’t put it on right or like, I don’t know. Maybe I’m just not some everybody’s cup of tea. I don’t know. But like I have tried some pretty sordid stuff over the years that have epically failed. And I’m always amazed at like these people be like, I’ve got 18 people for my gang bang. Now don’t know that I wanna do that but.
Trevor Hoppe (59:51)
No one came.
Shane Lukas (1:00:14)
I’m always kind of like, kudos, you you like, you know what you want and you’re able to do that. I clearly, I need to bake more cakes or have more adverves. I’m not sure what it is, but I would say my biggest problem is they epically fail. Is that my desire is sometimes greater than the outcome. And then like sometimes though, on the flip side of that, I won’t be looking for it at all. And I am in a back room with six people.
Trevor Hoppe (1:00:30)
Yeah, I relate.
Shane Lukas (1:00:44)
and like life. And so I have at least chalked it up to maybe just not my time.
Trevor Hoppe (1:00:51)
I appreciate that. I just like to ask that because you know I think we all have these, some people call them war stories or whatever, but like just moments that stand out or in your case the absence of those moments but I think that speaks to something too just about the complexity and reality. I just want you know the real experiences to come through because we’re trained not to talk about it in public and I think that’s a shame.
Shane Lukas (1:01:18)
No, absolutely. mean, expressing desire is courage because this isn’t the culture that allows it. And queer desire particularly, you know, is always inherently political, hence the story of my entire harm reduction existence. And so I appreciate you and bringing these stories forward and all the work that you do, Trevor, is phenomenal. And again, I think something to be honored and appreciated. So I wanted to take a minute and also thank you.
Trevor Hoppe (1:01:42)
Thank you, Shane. And for people curious about the work that you do, where can they find more about you and find out more information?
Shane Lukas (1:01:51)
Gosh, you we haven’t really talked about my company at all. So yeah, you can find out about me. You can go to shanelukas .com. It’ll point you to my company. We’re a brand communications company. But I also am certainly an advocate in many communities and speak out around social justice and equity in a context of queer liberation, anti -racism, a variety of contexts.
So always happy to do that. And I make new friends. I’m always happy to make new friends and encourage that. And if there’s any opportunities to, again, be in community with people to talk about destigmatization, whether that’s around sex work, whether that’s around queer liberation, whether it’s around queer f***ing, always happy to join those conversations.
Trevor Hoppe (1:02:36)
Thank you so much, Shane.
Shane Lukas (1:02:38)
Absolutely. Pleasure. Thank you, Trevor.
Trevor Hoppe (1:02:39)
That’s our show for today. Thank you so much for listening, as always. And remember, if you’re not having your best sex, I am here to help. My services as a sex coach can help you identify and overcome those barriers that are standing between you and your best sex life. Find out more on my website, thebestgaysex.net. Till next time.
